A New Reef Is Found (In Tullamore!!)

Well I have to say without a doubt this is my favourite tread and I always have to go through what’s been happening and look at the great photos. You have put so much time into the pictures your tank and the tread I look at it every time I log in. It is great for anybody thinking of starting a marine tank, which I hope to do some day.
Best of luck..............Tom.

@ Anthony

I only added 5ml of urine once to the tank to get evidence of a nitrogen cycle which has now been shown to be active. (A spike of 0.25mg/L which had been duly processed to zero within 24 hours. I now know for definite that the bacteria are present and active.
Obviously if I was to stand on a chair and empty my bladder completely into the tank (0.5-1.0 litre of urine, I would be asking for trouble. That amount of waste would kill everything (A complete wipe out)

Constituents of Normal Urine

Urine is approx. 95% water.

The other components of normal urine are the solutes that are dissolved in the water component of the urine. These solutes can be divided into two categories according to their chemical structure (e.g. size and electrical charge).

Organic molecules are electrically neutral and can be relatively large (compared with the 'simpler' ions - below).These include:

Urea - Urea is an organic (i.e. carbon-based) compound whose chemical formula is: CON2H4 or (NH2)2CO.
Creatinine - Creatinine is a normal (healthy) constituent of blood. It is produced mainly as a result of the breakdown of creatine phosphate in muscle tissue. It is usually produced by the body at a fairly constant rate
Uric acid - Uric acid is an organic (i.e. carbon-based) compound whose chemical formula is: C5H4N4O3.

Other substances/molecules - Example of other substances that may be found in small amounts in normal urine include,

Sodium (Na+) : Amount in urine varies with diet.
Potassium (K+) : Amount in urine varies with diet.
Chloride (Cl-) : Amount in urine varies with dietart intake (chloride is a part of common salt, NaCl).
Magnesium (Mg2+) : Amount in urine varies with diet
Calcium (Ca2+) : Amount in urine varies with diet.

Small groups formed from a few different elements:

Ammonium (NH4+) : The amount of ammonia produced by the kidneys may vary according to the pH of the blood and tissues in the body.
Sulphates (SO42-) : Sulphates are derived from amino acids. The quantity of sulphates excreted in urine varies according to the quantity and type of protein in the person's diet.
Phosphates (H2PO4-, HPO42-, PO43-).

Microbiologically, Urine is normally very sterile. Some people even drink there own urine for health reasons (I could never understand that!)In the abcence of a Urinary tract infection (UTI) no bacteria are found.

A big No No is if the donor is taking antibiotics as this will be excreted in the urine and promptly kill the good guys in the Live Rock.

The die off from the rocks was not to be relied on to mature the tank as most of the Live Rock had been cured for upwards of 6-8 months. (There was nothing left to die!)

The Blue legs have almost completely removed all the brown algae from the tank and the coralline algae (Purple) is starting to trive once again now that the coating of brown/green algae has been removed. No evidence of them eating coralline algae. I was also assured that these guys have been sold to lots of customers with no problems and are reef safe. I am aware of other species of Blue Legs that can cause havoc in a reef tank in that they not only eat coralline algae but also nip the polyps on various Soft/Hard Corals. They would definitely be unwelcome guests to a reef tank.

So far everything is going to plan and I hope to introduce the first few fish in the coming weeks. Hope this clears up any misgivings you may have had regarding using a SMALL amount of urine to cycle a tank.

@ Frontosa
Many thanks, Tom for your kind comments. How is that \"maternity ward\" coming along!

Kind regards

Seany

Someone got owned right there, and it wasn't Seany!

Starting to look great!

Dave,

Just clarifying the issue with my source of Ammonia. No intention of giving anyone a hard time. I'm not experienced enough to stand on that pedestal!

All water parameter tests this morning are still perfect. Algae is now 90% gone. May go ahead and add some fish early next week after a 10% water change on Sunday.

Could I enquire as to the availability of the following that were in stock a few days ago.

A. Coral Beauty (1)
B. Flame Angel (1)
C. Firefish (3)

I know A & B can nip some LPS polyps but I won't be getting those for some time until after I move, when the new house is built next year at which point I am thinking of setting up a FOWLR system in addition to the reef tank so if they give problems at that time they can be rehoused.

I've changed my mind about green chromis. Maybe a bit too drab in colouration as marine fish go. Once the Dwarf Angels and firefish are settled I will add 2 Clowns and a couple of yellow tail damsels.

Finally a goby or two, Bangii cardinals and maybe a tang.

What do you think?

Seany

Aye I know, only a bit of banter.

Selection sounds good, advise caution with the angels as they may fight, however, in a big enough tank you may get away with it.

I have most of the above in stock(see post in sponsors section) and can hold some for you if you like.

Talk soon

Dave

Dave wrote:

Someone got owned right there, and it wasn't Seany!

Starting to look great!

How do you make that out.
Dave.. Are you of African/Ameriacn origin or do you watch
too much tv?
Someone got owned sounds a bit Jive-ish.
Maybe if the question was asked in person and I was gazzumped
and could not answer then maybe I would have to consider
myself Seany`s bitch.


Hi Seany.
That was a very detailed reply.Question? Was it googled.
If not it must have taken a long time to write.
When I say die off,I mean even if you buy fully cured rock
you will still get die off from sea weed/ minute organisms.
Wether it is enough to cycle a tank depends on the amount of
organisms in the rock.
I made a big boo boo myself a while back when I added rock from another persons cycled tank and I nearly lost everything. I would hate it to happen to you.

Anyway. I liked you reply. Even the one your sidekick
Dave wrote.

Hope all you posts are informative as this(though not googled) but not as long.

hi seany,
an angelfish should be added last as they can be aggressive to new arrivals. IMO you'd be better off adding the clowns (assuming they are common clowns) and gobys/blennys (peaceful fish) first. also damsels are usually bad news due to their aggression.

@ Anthony,

Your ire is with Dave, not me. As I said before,

\"Just clarifying the issue with my source of Ammonia. I've no intention of giving anyone a hard time. I'm not experienced enough to stand on that pedestal!\"
Yes, the response was detailed as I assumed you and one or two other forum users sought clarification regarding this method. I am employed by the HSE as a Senior Medical Scientist, a job I have done for the last 18 years and the data was forwarded on to me from a consultant pathologist on my request. I definitely didn't \"Google\" it and resent the implication

I have no interest in \"Owning\" anyone. And don't fear you are not my ***** as implied. I have tried to give an open and honest account of how I set up my first reef tank in this forum so that others can help me when I hit various \"walls\" along the way.

I appreciate your comments re the live rock and thank you for your concerns. I will also certainly keep a close eye on the hermits as suggested earlier. It is taken onboard. Many thanks.

Now back to the main topic.

Some more photos as promised to give a quick update as it is now 4 days since I added the cleanup crew....


4 Days Ago


TODAY


Left Side Live Rock. Nearly all gone


One of The cleaner shrimps feeling a little less camera shy for a change


Coralline algae uncovered from under the brown algae and untouched by hermits


Some more bits


And another bit.

@ Lampeye
Many thanks for your kind suggestions. I have been told that damsels are little B*****D's alright. The angels are on hold for now and Plan B is now to add a couple of clowns (NOT MAROON)and 2-3 firefish until christmas.

Many thanks to everyone who has been a great help and source of advice during the last few weeks. Not least to Dave (MY SIDEKICK!)

Kind regards
Seany

Hi Seany.
Did not mean to cause offence. Implying someone is a googler is a little joke here on the forum.
Especially where Holger is concerned. You post has been excellent from the start.
Very detailed and informative.
Can I just make one recommendation.
It is best to have as many ledges as possible for placing Corals. Also having bigger gaps between
the live rock gives you a bigger surface area for bacteria. You might find yourself limited for space
to place Corals with your current aqua scape, you don`t want to be moving rocks when your tank
is settled.
Miliput and e-poxy will only hold corals in place on flat rocks. The won`t stick them on to the side of
rocks. You could end up pulling you hair out in the not too distant future.
Believe me I have done. Sitting watching tv and you hear Corals falling. It`s a pain in the ass.

This is just my two cents worth. Looking forward to seeing the tank finished.

Anthony wrote:

Implying someone is a googler is a little joke here on the forum.
Especially where Holger is concerned. .

A Googholger is a man that google's up Austrian Mountains , he sort of sings googler songs to sheep and things, I think he marries Heidi.

Anthony,

Now you're giving me food for thought!!!
I never thought of placing corals e.t.c. and the ledges/shelves required and the whole placement & glues etc. That will require some thought re changing things around. I'll reappraise the aquascape at lights on in the morning.

Didn't mean to be tight arse. I am as easy going as anyone, so I hope I didn't give the wrong impression. No offence taken. I wasn't aware of Holger's affliction!.

Thanks for the advice. This is the kind of Hints/Tips/Stuff I was hoping for when I started the post. Glad you are enjoying the updates.

Kind regards
Seany

Fr. Jack wrote:

Anthony wrote:

Implying someone is a googler is a little joke here on the forum.
Especially where Holger is concerned. .

A Googholger is a man that google's up Austrian Mountains , he sort of sings googler songs to sheep and things, I think he marries Heidi.

I am pissing myself laughing. Nearly fell out of the chair.
Belly aching here.

No worries Seany. Its best to do it now while you have little or no fish in the tank.
Just think of Coral that need loads of light, ones that need a
little and the ones that don`t need much at all.

I changed mine around again just before I sold it. I was
trying to catch the Tang plus I added some Clowns and a Koran. I still struggled for space for corals.
I would have changed it again only pierce bought it.
I needed more gaps for ciculation plus fish need spaces to hide.
I can see you struggling to add coral when you decide to add
them plus your rock work looks a bit tight.
Hope you see this as constructive critisism and not a smart
comment.

Keep us updated on the tank.

I love this thread, it's great to learn from other people's mistakes and oversights.

Keep the pics coming.

Thanks for the enquiry, the maternity ward is up and running, two mothers have given birth in it already and one is still in labour. Well worth the effort, the only problem is that I need an extension on the ward already. I’m going to have a word with Mary Harney and see can she spare any of the HSE budget for my dedicated fish ward.

Have a good one…………………..Tom.

PS. To anybody reading this I’d like to wish everybody a Very Happy Christmas and a Prosperous New Year and don’t DRINK and DRIVE.

Santa's Letter

After some research, I've come up with the following provisional fish wish list.


Goes without saying!


Tellow Tang. The only Tang I'll get. The other guys seem to get too big 12-18 inches. Also some like the Regal Tang are ich magnets.


Royal Gramma. Genrally non-aggressive. Reef compatible


Orchid Dottyback. One of the more peaceful members of this group.


Banggai Cardinalfish. A group of three I think.


?? Azure Damselfish. There seems to be alot of confusion over these group of fish. These guys are less aggressive than the normal Damselfish. Another option would be the normal Yellow Tail Blue Damselfish. Also less aggrssive than the usual suspects. I would also like to keep a group of three of these guys.


MandarinFish. I have so many copepods in my tank at the moment, I could start producing blister packs of the stuff!


Neon Goby. Small Peaceful


Green Clown Goby. Not alot of info on this guy around.


Yellow Clown Goby. Small Peaceful and cute!


Black Ray Shrimp Goby. Any LFS stock these guys. Grow to about 2''


Randall's Shrimp Goby. Can be kept with other shrimp gobys and may even share a burrow with them!


Rainford's Goby. Beautiful fish. Rarely aggressive. Grows to about 2.5''


Purple FireFish. A small group of these would be nice.


Pyjama/Sixline Wrasse. Smaller and less aggressive than most wrasses. Grows to about 3''


Swissguard Basslet. Grows to about 3''. Reef compatible.

And now for the questionable choices


Flame Angelfish. Generaly hardy. Known to nip LPS corals sometimes. I have no intention of keeping such corals any time soon.


Coral Beauty Angelfish. Like the Flame Angelfish, it has been known to nip LPS polyps. My only concern is that if one of these 2 Angelfish are added before the other, there maybe a territorial dispute. So the plan would be to add them at the same time and thus minimise aggression.

I've stayed away for the usual No/No's, Lionfish, Morays etc
Also most Tangs get to big or are whitespot addicts.
Hawkfishes are a bit dodgy with shrimps and small fishes
Jawfishes are also prone to a tasty shrimp or two, I believe.
Anthias like feeding 3-4 times a day. Doesn't suit my working hours.
Puffers/Triggers are not reef safe.
Blennies can nip SPS Corals and some can be aggressive. I was planning to keep SPS corals
Butterflyfish are mainly a no go area, but I have to say that the Copperband Butterflyfish does tickle my fancy and in some instances can be generally reef safe if well fed.

All opinions expressed above are not my own as I have never kept marine fish before. The info is gleaned from marine books and Google. So if anyone out there has kept any of these fish and wants to correct me in my \"Reef Education\", please let me know.

Obviously, they will not all be added at the same time, and I don't intend in keeping every fish on the list. Also the most aggressive will be added last. However then the info says add the damsels first as tried and trusted plan???

Which brings me to a different point. Every resource I have looked at has a different stocking density recommendation for a reef tank. I currently have 5 recommendations!

They vary from 1 inch of fish to 5 gallons of tank water up to 1 inch per litre!!

Can someone advise please.

Kind regards
Seany

I have a Flame Hawkfish and it hasn't even looked at tthe two cleaner shrimp.
Great fish, with personality.
Also, the only fish I have personally named. Dave. After Rodney.

Hi Sean.

Provisional list looks fine. Tangs, clowns, gramma, few damsels, bangaiis, mandarins firefish and possibly two goby species should be ok. I have or can get all the above including the Swissguards for whenever you need. Sounds similar stocking wise to our own system, Gobies may be difficult to source should be able to get them from Sri Lanka or phillipines.

The angel situation may be tricky, although they are reported to nip Stony corals and mantles etc, I've never known them to nip at softies. adding the two at the same time, should in theory work, although it is a risk.

The hawkfish is generally a concern, my own spotted hawkfish eats cleaner shrimp, however he won't touch fire shrimp, so again it varies, it may work if your shrimp are big enough but its a risk.

I wouldnt listen to stocking densty ratios as they vary to much from system to system. Adding fish slowly and building stock up over time and using common sense is the best method.

I have some of the above like the damsels, cardinals and angels due in within the week, a green clown goby was ordered and hopefully may be in tonight, it remains to be seen however if it is the same species as the above, As trade names tend to confuse things between west and east.

Regards

Dave

forgot to mention although tangs are notorious for whitespot, a simple quarintine tank with an elevated copper level will help prevent expensive losses, not to mention potentially rescuing your system should you get an out break.

Prevention is better than cure.

@ Anthony,
Did a bit of live rock shifting this evening, so more ledges etc available for the inverts. Thanks for the tip. Much appreciated.

@ Didhino
You have a laidback hawkfish there. According to the literature they are notorious shrimp eaters and will even knock turbo snails off the glass to get at the flesh!
Either he's a couch potato or well fed! I ain't taking the chance. With my luck I'll get one that eats shrimps/snails like I eat hot dinners!

@ Dave
Regarding the Damsels due in next week, are they Yellow Tail Blue Damsels or the same guys you have in AV display tank (? Azure Damsels). If that is a genuine Green clown Goby. Keep him for me. They are not compatible with the Yellow clown goby so they are the first to be dropped from the wish list.

So the plan is as follows

Next week (Once feeding in LFS)
2 Ocellaris Clowns (small)
3 Damsels
1 Green Goby

January
3 Purple Firefish
1 Royal Gramma
1 Orchid Dottyback

Feburary
2-3 Banggii Cardinalfish
1 Yellow Tang

March
1 Mandarinfish
1 Blackray Shrimp Goby
1 Randall's Shrimp Goby
1 Rainford's Goby

April
1 Pyjama/Sixline Wrasse
1 Swissguard Basslet

May
1 Coral Beauty
1 Flame Angel

If at any time. I feel the nitrites are at a residual level not acceptable to keeping softies and other inverts, the angels/Wrasse/Basslet will be dropped. Also a couple of softies/tubeworms will be added over these months as well.

Does the sequence in which I have planned to add these fish seem reasonable?
As the tank parameters adapt to each new introduction, it may not take as long as May before tank is fully stocked.

Let me now what the Goby turns out to be and when the Damsels arrive, as to what type they are? I believe you already have the clowns (Ocellaris)in stock.

Kind regards
Seany

Hi Seany.
I would tweak the list around abit. Yellow Tangs are hard as nails. It is the other Surgeons that are
white spot magnets and best left alone. The yellow Tang should be the last to go in as he will harass
and kill everything else. In the wild they keep huge territories and in a tank enviroment he will
see the whole tank as his if added in first.
Damsels can be ver aggressive too. Most people never have nay trouble with them but I had a demon who
went on the rampage in my Tank.
I would add the Angels before the yellow Tang and at the same time,(together)
Dwarf Angels added at different wil hammer each other.
Make sure you have plenty of live food (Copepods)for the Mandarin before adding him.

hi seany ,
re your fish list : i dont know all of the fish but if it was me i'd stay away from the damsels and the baslet/dottyback. they may be fine in a tank your size. also ive read a lot of stories of people with groups of firefish that end up with only one so be carefull there, again the tank may be big enough to not have a prob. they say mandarinfish, angels and tangs should be only added to a mature tank of 6 months at the very very least. If you do decide to add damsels DONT add them first, with the exception of the clowns.
finally i think you will be adding to many fish at once. if you are to qt them for 4 weeks they might kill each other in the small tank. a good rule is to add one or two fish (max) at a time and leave a good two weeks between fish....but since you plan to qt that would mean every 4 weeks which is even better. It'd be a shame to rush it after all your hard work/€€
just my 2 cents
fran

Many thanks guys for all the advice.
Liverock re-jigged to open it up a bit and stocking list also redrafted on your advice.

Just a quick update


Who's looking at who ?????



Qt tank from LIDL.
Running now for a week. Filter sponge in sump of main tank to be seeded with the good guys. Temp 24 Degrees, pH 8.4,SG 1.025, Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate = 0.0

Main Tank also tested tonight
Temp 25 degrees
pH 8.4
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 0.0
Calcium 420mg/L
Phosphate 0.0
Alkinity 8 degrees dKH
SG 1.0245

Tank now running for almost 6 weeks. Clean up crew has eaten all the horrible brown algae. Purple coralline algae now forming nicely. In some part there is some red and Bright green Macroalgae starting to grow. Hopw to get the first fish this weekend. Pair of A. ocellaris.

I'll keep you posted

Seany

Hey Seany,

Any recent updates on the tank, pictures, new livestock etc..

Regards

DEnis

Thread was getting a bit long with almost 3000 views and >80 replies. so I thought I'd let it rest for a while!

Will put some updated pics before the weekend, ok.

Kind regards
Seany

No rush, just wanted to see how things where going. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this Journal. Thanks for taking the time to post so far.

Regards

Denis

As Promised Guys,



Sorry if image is a little too big, but any smaller and the text becomes unreadable.

Any questions, give me a shout

Kind regards

Seany

Looks great Sean. Really does, like what you did with the picture also, makes it very good for ID.

Regards

Dave

WOW!!!!! Looking amazing!!! Great to see it fully stocked, the clowns seem to get on????

Seany,

Excellent presentation 20/20 !!!!

The tank looks absolutely fantastic, it could push me over the fence and change over to a marine set up !!!! :-D

Thank you.
Valerie

Dave,

All thanks to your good advice and help

Drew,

Clowns get on well. I forgot to mention/label the bubbletip anemone just behind them.

Valerie,

Research, Research, Research!!!

Seany