New Project....

This project has started on 31st March 2008

I decided to start my blog on this new project...I had this tank for the last two years now which is a 200 Litre tank. It is a 50X50X50 tank (they are all cm - metric system). This tank was done after my 1.5m tank had some problems and had to cut it in two. Though, this tank was not a lucky one. I had used it at least twice with different setups. It started off being planted and had some angelfish and other compatible fish with no problems at all. But after some months running had an ammonia spike...reason unknown and my angelfish died which I had for some years.

I decided to go for a malawi setup but after some time running had same problem with ammonia spikes which killed the toughest of my fish...now I blame it on my filter which was an internal one. Though, I am not sure what I am going to do with it...though I might use it to breed a pair of salvini in this tank but not sure what kind of setup..

Now, the project itself...this time I will use another tank which I had running for the last 4 years and used for unwanted fish...now I want to use this new tank for a new setup. I decided to go for a Malawi or Tang setup depending on the quality of fish that I might find at our lfs which was not always desirable but may try out some friends around to purchase or exchange the fish.

Stage 1:

After I removed the sand and rocks which made up this original tank, I decided not to take any risks for any bacterial invasion. Thus, I took the task of boiling everything including the sand and rocks. Thsi took some time as i had two buckets of sand to boil and no large containers to hold and boil them in. This process took a week to do so and keep in mind the consumption...

Rocks were boiled as well for some hours though they had been resting on the outside for some days but not taking any risks in this matter, they were boiled. I will keep them overnight and clean them with tap water for some hours until I re-use them again.

Here is a picture of the sand...



Here is a picture of the rocks being boiled...



This is the tank that will be the subject of my project...though I did not set a date to start cleaning it as I need to rehouse some of the fish which are 4 clown loaches, one angelfish and three male bettas (safe...)



Here is the male plakat discovered recently among a number of females bought as a female...just his bubblenest

I had received an email if i wanted to purchase some Discus. The invitation was tempting and maybe the project will change to something else...here are some of the Discus being offered. They are locally bred as you can see from the fry with their parents. Luckily they were being kept at Ph 7 and no difference in GH or KH...

I started the new project which took me just 9 hours to clean and refill again the tank...It is just a 150 Litre tank no wonder I do not want anything bigger...Here are some pictures of the tank...

Empty tank and cleaned...



Gravel and the cleaning crew...one thing to add that some of the gravel was placed in the ceramic bag for seeding. Half of it was rinsed in the old water and left there to help seed the tank. The rest was cleaned and sterilized and left to dry...



I used peat which will be placed under the gravel...I punched some holes and placed the amazon roots inside for better grip...



New setup...few amazon swords which I am sure that they would fill the tank and few cabomba...waiting for some java ferns which are attached for a bogwood. I will eventually place some drift wood to make up the tank. Left the clay pot for any eventual breeding...in years time...



cloudy water...



Though, I have one cory and Angelfish which will be placed in the tank as soon as possible as the only place left is a tank filled with some aggressive and fin nipping. I will take my chances. I will have to do more frequent water changes in the next few weeks...

Woke up this morning and decided to do some changes to the landscape. Not much but the java fern has some effect...





cleaning crew...



clearer tank...



One remaining angelfish which will share its life with the Discus...coming in a few hours.

Here they are...went for 10 and got 20 instead!!! but paid for 10...

Here are some of my babies...doing well eating my pockets...as they are fed with bloodworms, beefheart and special formula for Discus. They are all frozen and pre-packed food...



Though, I am experiencing some Nitrite issues and doing 10litres water change everyday and trying to siphon all uneaten food but problem is the gravel...which was a mistake at this stage...but will remedy it in some way.

These are the parents...

Video:

www.youtube.com/v/zrinBMYyZtQ

Link: Video 2

Link: Video 3

Fantastic post Niko, I have not looked at the videos yet, will do that when I get back, but great to see all the stages so far, thank you for posting. Best of luck with the project.

I need to find some recent pictures of my Discus as now they are started to colour up. I bought them at around 2.5cm in size and now at least some of them has grown to three times as much. They are fed nearly 5 times a day with water changes and cleaning every 4 days. Unfortunately, I had setup the tank with gravel but since I clean regularly I can manage to keep it clean as much as possible.

thats a lot of discus for 150L tank. i suppose because are so small at the moment is not that bad but when they'll grow you'll have to sell lots of them. the rule is 1 adult discus per 50L so in your tank would be left just 3 maybe 4 discus especially if you want to put some other fish with them. cheers

Yes you are right they should be in a bigger tank. In two months time I have a 400 litre tank ordered which will house some of them. Although, I am very attentive to keep the water conditions clean as much as possible as having 17 (two died - being the smallest of the whole) Discus in such a small space is not enough. I have enough tanks to place them in case things get out of hand but for the time being they are used for other fish such as my salvini which are too aggressive for them.

Some updates:

2 month old picture...



1 month old picture...



Some more recent shots...

I hope you take this in the right context Niko as it is truly meant in the bests interests..

some of those fry are never going to make their fiull potential and i would place a bet that they will not reach a decent size. body shape and eye size are always a good indicator.

how many times a day are you feeding your fry? (small discus need at least 5 times a day due to their high metabolism)

i have attached a pics for a good size and shape indicator for fry at around the age im guessing your fish are at..

high protein diets and spotless water quality are an absolute must for fry.. bare bottom tanks are quiet literally a must to get your babies growing to a size that discus should be... 17-20 cm is a good size to aim for in an adult..

hope you find this useful

Adam

Half of the Discus that I have will not make it to that size as I have some which are 6 times larger than the others. Once I have the second tank by end of next month, the larger ones will be moved into this tank (there are six of them).

As to feeding regime, they are fed 5 times a day with a varied diet ranging from beefheart, microworms and other cichlid frozen food. They are supplemented by Tetra, and Ocean Nutrition food.

I carry out a weekly water change of around 30% and tank is heated at 30 degrees. As to the barebottom I completely agree but had no choice...one reason is that the fry were sold quite cheap...less than a guppy!! so I was sure that in selecting such a large number would cause such growth problems.

Good post.

Best of luck with the tank!

glad you didnt take it the wrong way

Why take it the wrong way...this is why forums are for...to discuss and learn. Thanks for the suggestions. When you said diet rich in proteins...do you use beefheart or dry food to supplement the diet? Secondly, why do you think that some remain small as compared to their siblings when considering they are in the same tank, eating the same kind of food etc.

Good post Niko. I love Discus when they are young and growing.

Be forwarned. re Discus. make sure you have a compatible Pair of the same strain i.e
1 - Don't try to crossbreed.it will produce a good number of runts and they will not grow on.
2- Be wary of buying Poven pairs. there are no such gauantees
3 - If they do breed be prepared to Cull heavily.

There are a lot of Young Discus on the market at cheap prices, but these are tending to be imature & runts, they do not put on any bulk.
You can but a pair that have spawned and produced young' but that does not gaurantee that they will breed in your tank.

Apart from that the best of luck

Thanks for the update.

The parents if they are the real parents are truly beautiful brood stock, if Discus look that good I would sincerely re consider keeping them again, keeping discus fry in a gravel tank with such big gravel with angels needs more input from other members as I am in shock and speechless.

I agree Sean, but as he said he was moving them to a new tank I was giving him the benfit of the doubt. Gravel is a death trap and a disaster waiting to hapen, a fine springkling of sand is o.k as Discus like to blow the food. and is more hygenic . I doubt if the two shown are the parents as one is a red and the other looks like a blue diamond, the answer to his question about the diference in growth rate raises the issue of runts/crossbreeds. where culling should have taken place.
What happens to the ones he dosn't want??? a waste of a good fish!!!!

I do not why you end up with conclusions when there are aren't!!! I breed a number of fish from cichlids to Bettas and never crosses my mind to cull or to get rid of any unwanted fish. They either end up in good homes or in my spare tanks. i cull only the deformed or any sick fish beyond treatment. I could post some pictures of Discus which I pick up from lfs which otherwise would end up as fish food.

In this case, as you can read my original posts, I had no choice but this tank. As to your doubts as to their parents, I can send you an email to the breeder and verify with her. You would do me a favour if she replies to your emails.

Cheers

Don't get up tight Niko
I have been keeping & breeding Discus for over 50 years!!!!! I'm trying to offer advice. The reason to cull is to protect the strain, if you are not prepared to Cull you should not breed them. as I said there are a lot of runts and under developed young Discus coming on the Market. These will never grow to size. Remember what you said \"They all eat ravenously some are twice the size of others\" there is your answer, Lets say for easy numbers - If I have a spawn of say 100 eggs - 20 are infertile leaves 80. 10 are runts/ deformed /underdevloped. down to 70. over the next 4 to 6 weeks I loose another 20 (called the 6 week syndrome)when some are lost for varying reasons (usualy unknown they just keel over) that gets it down to 50. out of those half make it to a good size and have good finage and colouring. eat well and continue to put on Bulk. then I am lucky. that leaves 25 that are not of a good standard and will never fully develope to there oroginal strain. These should be culled and not passed on as they could breed and produce a weak strain. Any breeder of any fish that is worth his salt will only keep to the original strain
Why for goodness sake would some one cross say a Blue Diamond with a Red Leopard. or a Royal Blue with a Red Scribble, Thats how the Butterfly strain developed.A mutation and Totaly unacceptable. Don't get uptight and always be prepared to listen.

Although I have limited experience of breeding any fish I agree with Russell
There is no point in keeping runts alive, I did this once with mollies that bread in a community tank, I saved as many babies as I could and never thought of the possibility that it could be a bad idea. The babies grew but never grew to full size and had unattractive coloring so I was left with a lot of mollies that I didn’t want and a fish shop would not want either these fish did not seem healthy and most died for no obvious reason. If this was to happen again I would leave the babies in the tank as good nutrition for the rest of the fish and if any survived I would see it as survival of the fittest. It’s the circle of life it happens for a reason.
Just my 2 cents

LB

great thread niko its good to see the different stages of development of both the tank and the fish. keep up the hard work.

As promised I started moving some of Discus to other tanks. I removed the first four of the less developed to a larger 200 litre tank. They have been there for the last 4 days and they seem to be stressed by the move. Though, they are not that dark in clour but they seem not to be eating. I added their usual food i.e. Ocean Nutrition high protein flake food, blood worms and the usual treat of beefheart but with no success. I think that it will take some more days to adapt to the new environment. Next month another batch will move to the new 400 litre tank which will be setup for Discus and Ramirezi (though not sure about their behaviour with Discus)