My first Aquarium...

Keep up the posts on this fishless cycle Jason...This is very interesting..Hope the water change gets ya back on track...

Just out of curiosity have you been turning your lights on at all during this cycle process...It is recommended to keep a tank in blackout during a fishless cycle until it cycles to deter algae growth which seems to have been a problem for you..

Also dont forget to keep adding Ammonia to the tank after it cycles until you add fish to keep the bacteria alive in your filters...

Thanks gunnered1972... Yep, I've been adding Ammonia each day (which, of course, is probably what lead to the pH crash) and once it's cycle I'll add a little Ammonia each day to keep the bacteria happy. The first step by step Fishless Cycle instructions I followed didn't mention the possibility of a pH crash at all, but another site I've found recommends a 50% WC once you have high Nitrites and Nitrates, specifically to avoid a crash! So hopefully the WC will get me back on track.

I've had to leave the lights on as I have live plants in the tank so I need to keep them going. I've reduced the lights from 10 hours to 8 hours a week or so ago.

Will test the water this evening and see where the tank is at. Hopefully I'll get to the point soon where added Ammonia reduces to 0 (with Nitrites at 0 too) by the next day, and then I can do some WCs to reduce Nitrates and be ready for some fish, finally!

Oh, I also ordered an Eheim heater too. I really don't trust the one I have, it does seem to have a constant temp (give or take), but it runs hot, and the lowest I can get it is about 25-26 degrees. I'm hoping to run my tank at 24 degrees (as it's a good temp for the fish I've chosen and also is closer to room temp which helps with costs and water changes), and I'd also rather have a heater I trust!

J.

Room temperature will have an effect on tank temperature...Be aware of that..Its possible your room temperature is keeping the tank temperature at 25/26 (Possibly your heater is NOT whats causing the higher temp)...Its really common in summer to see tank temps up at 28/29/30...Its unavoidable...Usually it isnt a problem to the fish because its usually a gradual increase...It is sudden temperature increases that are dangerous to fish not gradual ones...

In summer months ive always noticed that my heater lights never come on which means the natural weather temperatures we experience in the summer are keeping the tank warm and not the heater....

If you have an indicator light on your heater keep an eye out to see if its going on and off...When the room temperature is at a certain level you will hardly ever see your heater light come on because the room temperature is doing the work.....To be honest 25/26 degrees is really not a problemfor most tropical fish...I myself run my tanks at 25 degrees average and always have with no problems....

Ya dont have to be exactly perfect with a constant 24 degrees...In fact you wont be able to keep a constant 24 degrees due to our environmental temperature variations with our crazy Irish weather both in winter and summer..........

I know what you mean gunnerred1972, I'm never going to get it perfect (as Fr. Dougal would say). However, with the thermostat on my current heater set to 20 degrees, the water temp was around 25/26 in the tank and the heater was *still* coming on, as I was keeping an eye on the indicator light. When it comes down to it, I just don't trust the heater...

J.

Well, some more positive results tonight. Here's what I got:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 5ppm+ (off the chart)
Nitrates: 5-10ppm
pH: 7.6 approx.

So basically the approx. 1.5 ppm Ammonia I added last night is gone, so that's a good sign that the bacteria are still doing their job (at least I assume it is!). The Nitrites are still high, I'm still waiting for that spike to drop. Nitrates aren't too bad, and importantly the pH has rebounded from 6!

So I've added more Ammonia tonight, but instead of the 5ppm I was adding each night (and it was gone by the following night, up until the pH crash), I only added approx. 3ppm and I'll see tomorrow evening if the filter handles that. Hopefully I'm back on track and hopefully that Nitrite reduction isn't too far away!

J.

Technically, you don't want nitrite reduction: you want nitrite oxidation (chemically, nitrite reduction will form nitric oxide or further reduction to form ammonia....not what you want )

Adding ammonia in itself is very very unlikely to cause a pH crash or a pH drop (unless the pH were well above pH 9.2) as ammonia ia a base (albeit a weak base).

But if the alkalinity is low or there is a lack of suitable metallic ions then the process of nitrosofication can end up producing nitrous acid instead fo nitrites, and the process of nitrification can end up producing nitric acid instead of nitrates.

ian

Thanks Ian. Should I be worried that I'm beginning to understand your posts more and more?

J.

Jasonb wrote:

Thanks Ian. Should I be worried that I'm beginning to understand your posts more and more?

J.

It depends on if you don't mind being a bit nerdy or not

Oh, I'm already a nerd (or geek or whatever), this is just getting nerdy in yet another topic!

J.

Well, the good news is that after putting 3ppm of Ammonia into my tank last night, tonight the Ammonia is 0 and the Nitrites are 1, the first time they haven't been off the chart high since I started 4 weeks ago. So maybe there's light at the end of the cycling tunnel...

The bad news is that the pH had dropped back down to 6.6 from 7.6. I did another 40% water change and I'm hoping that this pH drop is being caused by the cycle and once it's fully done, the pH will stabilse. That might be a pipe dream but we'll see! After doing the water change I added another 3ppm of Ammonia so we'll see what the results are tomorrow evening.

More bad news, I've managed to kill my Vallis. Well there's one left but I think it's in trouble. All the others were in really bad shape, with half disolved leaves etc, so I took them out, and they'd no roots to speak of. And there was me thinking that Vallis was one of those 'you can't kill them' plants! My Cryptos seem to be ok, and I will have to look at getting more Vallis later as I do want some long grasses at the back of the tank. One possible reason for their demise (apart from plants just not liking me!) is that they were quite young / small when I got them, so maybe getting some fully grown ones might be the way to go.

J.

Not sure if anyone's still reading this but I've started so I'll finish!

After adding 3ppm of Ammonia last night I tested this evening and I've got Ammonia at 0 and Nitrites at 0! So definite progress there! Nitrates are off the chart high, so I'll be doing a 90% or so water change in the next day or two, which should take care of that. And then, if it's not tempting fate, my tank might just be cycled!

I still have two weeks before getting fish, so I'll use those two weeks to keep an eye on the pH. I'll add 1ppm of Ammonia each day just to keep the bacteria ticking over and do water changes when needed. When I do the 90% water change I'm also going to move the tank away from the wall a little so I can clean the glass a bit easier going forward...

J.

I'm still reading

I'd suggest (but too late here) to do a graph of the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH every few days during the start of trying to get a biological filter system working.

Where that comes in handy is in tracing back if things go wrong.
It wil also indicate the possibility of incorrect test results (but remembering that things are not a one-way system and are not linear in all pathways).

ian

Thanks Ian!

I actually have been keeping track of the test results since Day 1, so I could graph them if needed. I haven't tested pH or Nitrates every day, but I have tested Ammonia and Nitrites every day. I'm too much of a Nerd not to have kept records!

J.

Still reading too

Sure a test isn't done until it is recorded in a spread sheet

I found that only the giant Vallis would grow in my tank as I am keeping the water soft with peat, maybe the low PH melted your Vallis.

Oh yeah meant to say

Have you seen the sera test kit it costs just a little more than the API but has loads of tests. Just think how many more columns you could add to that spreadsheet kh gh cl cu fe

I really need to try to stay away from Excel, I use it far too much!

There's a good possibility that the pH crash helped kill off the Vallis, as some of them did seem to be improving and getting bigger, whereas others always looked a bit fragile. Anyhow, they're all gone now, I only have the Cryptos left. I do plan to get more Vallis though, maybe once the tank is a lot more stable.

Assuming that I have 0 Ammonia and Nitrites again tonight (and I really bloody hope I do!), then I'll start to feel confident that I have the filter ready. I'm buying some more B&Q buckets tonight so that I have enough to do the 90% water change. I'll leave water with Easy Life Filter Medium in all of them tonight, and do the water change tomorrow night. That's the plan, anyhow!

J.

Yep, Ammonia and Nitrites back to 0 this evening, so that looks pretty promising, my filter might just be ready! And the pH hasn't dropped either.

I now have approx. 125L of water in numerous buckets in the room, with Easy Life Filter Medium in them all, and hopefully I'll get to do the big water change tomorrow evening. With water charges coming in, maybe this wasn't the best time to take up this hobby!

J.

Well, it took exactly a month, but I believe my tank is now cycled and ready for fish! For three days in a row I've added some Ammonia and the next day it's been down to 0 and so have the Nitrites. Nitrates were off the chart of course, so I did a big water change last night (about 85% I reckon). I added a little Ammonia afterwards to keep it ticking over so I'll see what the test results are today.

I took advantage of having the tank almost empty to pull it out from the wall a bit, making it easier to clean the back and side. I also put a couple of coasters under two of the cabinet's feet to make it more level. And the new Eheim heater is up and running perfectly, so thanks for all your advice on that.

I'll be getting fish in a couple of weeks, so until then I'll keep it ticking over with Ammonia (just 1ppm) and do water changes to keep the Nitrates in check. It should help me to figure out how much water needs to be changed and how often, I'm thinking about 30% a week but I'll see.

I took a pic to show how it is now, though it was just after I cleaned all the glass so the water's a bit stirred up. It's not a great pic, sorry, I had to use my phone. I also still have a bit of Algae (the lights are now down to 7 hours a day) but I'll be getting some Otos and Snails after a while so that should help with that!

All going well, the next pics should hopefully finally have some fish in it! And I do plan to get more Vallis for the back left as well.

Thanks...

J.

Another update...

As discussed in the Water & Health thread, I'd a bit of a Algae problem, and ended up doing 90% water change. But hopefully it's sorted now, and tonight's results show:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10ppm
pH: 7.4-7.6

All the ornaments are out and cleaned and in a bucket in the dark, along with the top layer of Substrate, and they'll stay covered til the bacteria are dead. They'll go back in after about a week or so, but bar something drastic, I'll finally get my first fish on Wednesday!

J.

if any body deserves to have fish you sure do.

Well, after 2 and a half months, and over 130 posts here alone, I can now call myself a Fish Keeper!

Went to Seahorse yesterday and got 6 Sterbas Corys, the first fish I decided I wanted and they've been top of my list ever since. I also decided to get a couple of Nerite Snails as I thought that they will help a little with any Algae, and when the tank matures I might get some Otos as well.

Anyhow, got the fish home and very nervously got them acclimatised and then transferred them over, convinced I'd catch their barbels in the net!

But it all went well and they're settling in nicely in their new home. I've already started to worry about one, as he/she moves less than the others, but then whenever I think to myself 'I hope he's ok', he then swims around to settle my nerves! The Snails are doing fine and have already got to work on some of the leaves of the Cryptos...

I tested the water this evening and I'm still at 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites and 10 Nitrates so that's good. I fed them as well (NLS Thera +A Small Fish Formula) and I was a little worried (there's gonna be a lot of that, I can tell) as they basically seemed to ignore / not notice the sinking pellets. But later on I saw them rummaging around in the substrate where most of the pellets fell, so I reckon they got their food. I really have no idea how much to give them, so I'm trying to err on the side of less rather than more!

I'll be doing the first of my weekly water changes on Sunday and I'll also put back in all the cleaned substrate and ornaments that came out so I could kill the algae on them, so the tank as a whole will hopefully look a lot better.

And finally, I'm already looking to my next fish, 10 Rummynose Tetras. Depending on water test results, I was thinking of getting them on Sunday week (so 11 days after the Corys were added). Does that sound too soon?

Finally, finally, I thought I should add some pics! It's hard to get the Corys when they're all together.

Thanks for everyone's help, advice, encouragement and patience! I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions now that I've something to try to keep alive!

J.

Fantastic job Jason!

I feed my fish once every 2 days (a decent amount) has always worked well for me..overfeeding will cause algae (be aware of that)

Change at least 30% water weekly but like I previously said 50% is much better especially in the battle against algae

Corries often just sit there doing nothing so I wouldn't worry about the loner..They have 2 modes almost..busy foraging or sitting still chilling

Adding the Rummies will be fine..just test your water parameters before and after to be sure..
The nerites will do a great job for ya and will also keep ur glass clean..

Remember also to vary your fishes diet with frozen/live food and veggies etc as well as flakes etc

Thanks gunnered! Delighted to have the tank up and running now, the Corys seem to be doing fine and I think might be slowly getting used to getting fed in one corner. I also have the cleaned substrate and the rock / wood back in the tank now, so it's looking a bit better.

Looking forward to adding the Rummynose Tetras this weekend, I've only had 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrites every time I've tested in the last week, so the filter handled the Corys being added without any problems, though I will of course keep an eye on it when the Tetras are added. I really want to add some taller plants in the background behind the Cryptos as well, it'll add more depth and help with the Nitrates.

After the Rummynose Tetras I'll probably add some Harlequin Rasboras and that'll do me for the moment, apart from maybe some Otos in a while to help with any Algae.

At the moment I'm doing a 33% water change each week, but I can easily increase that if needed...

Thanks...

J.

33% for now is fine Jason, you want your tank to become established now at this stage. In terms of feeding, I would personally probably feed once a day and perhaps take 1 day off in the week, Im not sure I would do what gunnerreds once every 2 days feeds, but again everyone is different and Im sure gunnerreds had no issues on his routine, and what works for you and your fish is what matters. Your patience is to be complimented thus far. Im willing to say in a years time that tank will look very different and you will have decided to move and change the set up etc, but for now your doing excellent and I think everyone here has been impressed with your patience and willingness to learn to date.
Well done.

Gavin

Congratulations Jason, well done, nice to see your tank algae free after the battle keep it up

I thought I'd add an update!

Made some changes since the last pic. Got 8 Rummynose added now as well, and I put a fake plant in the right hand corner. I'm trying to stick with live plants, but I think this one does improve the look of the tank.

After a few failed attempts to get some Vallis growing well in the back left of the tank, I took them out today and replaced them with some Hygrophilia, which will hopefully do a lot better. The water is a bit unclear due to the replanting today, but here's how the tank is looking now:





I do a 33% Water Change each week, and the water parameters have been constant for weeks now (7.4-7.6 pH, 0ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitrites, approx. 5ppm Nitrates).

I also have my newest arrivals, as I got 10 Harlequin Rasboras today. After learning a lesson that cost me 4 fish, they're in my little Quarantine Tank and will be for a while. I'm happy to say I bought them straight from the Quarantine Tank in the shop, and they were all looking well and healthy in that tank. Here they are:





They'll be going into the main tank in a few weeks, and then all I have left to get are a few Otos I think...

Thanks...

J.

Jason the tank looks great and he plants seems healthy. Good looking fishes too!
Hope you have better luck this time since you're taking so much care of the aquarium.

Well done jason you never gave up and now you have a lovely looking tank. Give it 6 months for the plants to fill up and you add more fish.

Hi all...

I've had quite a few threads on here in the last couple of months, with lots of issues and things going wrong and general moaning and complaining! So, I thought I'd add a positive post for a change!

Here are some pics of how my tank is doing now, about 4 and a half months after I started it:











I'm quite happy with it now to be honest. I have it stocked with the following:

11 Harlequin Rasboras
8 Rummynose Tetras
5 Sterbas Corys
4 Otos
2 Nerite Snails

I had a nightmare with my first batch of Rasboras (I lost 9 out of 10!) but the second batch have done just fine. They're a lovely fish and add a lot of colour and movement to the tank, especially at feeding time when they go nuts! The Rummynose school together a lot, and spend a lot of their time swimming from one end of the tank to the other, adding a constant movement across the front of the tank. The Corys alternate between nosing around in the substrate and hiding under the rocks or plants. The Otos have been amazing, I only got them on Monday and almost *all* of the Algae I had on my plant leaves etc. is gone, they're really gone to town on it, which is excellent. Sometimes the Otos join the Tetras school as well. And the two Nerite Snails potter around, moving a lot faster than you think they would, and do their own bit for Algae control!

I finally gave up on growing Vallis and got some Hygrophilia for the background instead, and it's going great. The Cryptos at the front (especially the two closer to the middle of the tank) suffered a bit, especially with the Algae, but now that they're all clean I'm hoping they'll rebound a bit. I'm also trying different fertiliser to see if that helps the plants. The plant on the right is fake but I like how it looks hanging over the rock.

Finally, I added a smaller rock of the same type to the left of the tank to add more interest and give balance to the larger rock on the right. And I put the Sub back in for a dash of colour and because my wife loves it!

At this stage the tank is pretty much looking like how I imaged it, apart from the plants filling out a bit maybe, and the fish growing a bit. I don't have any more fish in mind (the ones I got I had pretty much decided on from the start) but I could be tempted to get 1 (or at most 2) slightly larger fish (maybe 3-4 inches) just to add a 'feature fish' to the tank. Any suggestions? It would need to be something placid and I don't want to overstock the tank either.

Thanks for all the advice I've got on here, anything positive that's gone well with this tank has been down to this Forum and the guys in Seahorse!

J.