Retirement and forum shutdown (17 Jan 2022)
Hi,
John Howell who has managed the forum for years is getting on and wishes to retire from the role of managing it.
Over the years, he has managed the forum through good days and bad days and he has always been fair.
He has managed to bring his passion for fish keeping to the forum and keep it going for so long.
I wish to thank John for his hard work in keeping the forum going.
With John wishing to "retire" from the role of managing the forum and the forum receiving very little traffic, I think we must agree that forum has come to a natural conclusion and it's time to put it to rest.
I am proposing that the forum be made read-only from March 2022 onwards and that no new users or content be created. The website is still registered for several more years, so the content will still be accessible but no new topics or replies will be allowed.
If there is interest from the ITFS or other fish keeping clubs, we may redirect traffic to them or to a Facebook group but will not actively manage it.
I'd like to thank everyone over the years who helped with forum, posted a reply, started a new topic, ask a question and helped a newbie in fish keeping. And thank you to the sponsors who helped us along the away. Hopefully it made the hobby stronger.
I'd especially like to thank John Howell and Valerie Rousseau for all of their contributions, without them the forum would have never been has successful.
Thank you
Darragh Sherwin
Endler's Livebearers
- cardinal (Lar Savage)
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seen some Endler's Livebearers today and i'm thinking of adding some to a south american community tank,(current PH 7.6) with mainly tetras and cory's can anyone give me some info on these..?I read somewhere they like hard ,brackish water...is this true...?
Thanks in advance...
lar
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- platty252 (Darren Dalton)
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I think they come from moderately hard water but not brackish. They also tolerate a wide range of temperatures. Just not to hot or cold.
They should be fine with a lot of Tetra's but some of the deeper bodied one's could be a bit feisty and nippy for them.
What else is in the tank?
Some of the members here have some and i think some have some for sale. Hopefully one of them can help you out.
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- cardinal (Lar Savage)
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Bronze corys
clown loaches
cardinals
glowlights
penguin tetras
rummy nose tetras
pristella tetras
Sml Angel fish
Siamese algae eaters
1 of the penguins can be slightly nippy but not too much,tank is 200ltr and fairly heavily planted,temp is around 24 deg,have a second tank which i'm in the process of setting up,probably going to move the loaches and the SAE's into it when it's ready.
Cheers
Lar
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- platty252 (Darren Dalton)
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I haven't kept Angels but i hear once they get a taste they can quickly clear a tank of small fish.
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i agree with platty you should be fine with them.
There is a lot of discussion on whether livebearers need some salt or not some do benefit it is true but in this case it is not.
They were rediscovered in Laguna de los Patos (Lagoon of the Ducks) in northeastern Venezuela by Professor John Endler, their namesake, took samples of them in 1975. they were originally discovered in 1937 by Franklin Bond.
And as far as we Know they are now extinct in the wild. As the lake is now a dump!
A wonderful little fish which displays beautifully!
Mickey Wallace & Cath Woods
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- cardinal (Lar Savage)
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Should be fine with your list of fish except the Angels can get a taste for small fish.
Platty252 yeah I'm aware of the danger,but the angels are v small at the moment,so I dont think it will be a problem for a while ,my newest batch of cardinals are so big they could probably eat the angels

Micky...I had read about the lake ok,have to admit I've never really been a fan of livebearers in general, but these just caught my eye,very neat looking with great colours,almost as if someone had taken a paintbrush to them:laugh:
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- darragh (Darragh Sherwin)
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In fact in the first week in the tank, the females produced 8 healthy fry.
Regards
Darragh
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- LimerickBandit (Donal Doran)
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I have 8 of these in my tank
They are a cool little fish and smart too they have worked out that the live brine shrimp come from the Hatcher in the corner and wait beside it for the shrimp to come out


LB
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- cardinal (Lar Savage)
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I think I'm sold on them, I promised myself there would be no more fish purchases this month but AAAAAHHHHHH TOO MANY FISH TO BUY !!!!!



HI HO,HI HO...To the fish shop we will go..

Lar
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- Andrew (Andrew Taaffe)
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Last night (Tuesday) i picked up a 3 females and another male, transferred the contents: water, filter, java moss and coconut from a small breeder into larger 30 litre tank, brought the water level up to 15 litres with water from the soft n slow and popped the females and male into the tank at about 3 am to keep the 3 month old SFF company, then added another male to the tank at lunchtime today.
Low and behold i come home from work tonight and found 8 endler fry !! those guys work fast !!
sorry about quality of image, at only a few hours old tey are still very small but remarkably about the same size as a month old SFF fry
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- Andrew (Andrew Taaffe)
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Last night (Tuesday) I picked up 3 females and another male, transferred the contents: water, filter, java moss and coconut from a small breeder into larger 30 litre tank, brought the water level up to 15 litres with water from the soft n slow and popped the females and male into the tank at about 3 am to keep the 3 month old SFF company, then added another male endler to the tank at lunchtime today.
Low and behold I come home from work tonight and found 8 endler fry !! those guys work fast !!
sorry about quality of image, only a few hours old they are still very small but remarkably about the same size as a month old SFF fry
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- Orca (Eoin Walsh)
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- cardinal (Lar Savage)
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CONGRATS !....That's fast work all right,I've decided to get some but I think it will be next month as I have a second tank to set up and I think they will be going into it,you mentioned "soft n slow " does the soft bit relate to water PH..? what are the ideal breeding conditions for these guys... or do they need such a thing...

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- Andrew (Andrew Taaffe)
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I can't say it is textbook, and was warned that they would breed like brine shrimp, but sure 's maybe there's something in the water here near the canal




Andrew
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- Andrew (Andrew Taaffe)
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this 70 ltr tank has
Male siamese fighting fish
4 dwarf rasbora
siamese flying fox
4 glowlight tetras
2 dwarf aquatic frogs
2 doublesword guppy
2 guppy
1 WCMM
3 golden WCMM
8 neon tetra's
common pleco
3 corydoras sterbai
2 amano shrimp caridinia japonica
3 crystal red shrimp (well 2 are in the filter box and won't join the party)
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- cardinal (Lar Savage)
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plenty of variety there,do the dwarf frogs do much..? I've seen them in AV a few times and wondered about them are they totally aquatic or do they need something to surface onto ...? not my thing to be totally honest but a friend has asked me about them?
Lar
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- serratus (Drew Latimer)
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- platty252 (Darren Dalton)
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- cardinal (Lar Savage)
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Yep frogs not really my scene,but good to know anyhow...


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- Daragh_Owens (Daragh Owens)
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Andrew just to let you know the Endlers will cross breed with the guppies. It is best not to pass on any fry from these. Even if the young look like Endlers there is a good chance the are hybrids.
They are Endlers.
Andrew, sounds like you had a hectic night, glad it turned out ok.
Daragh
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- fourmations (NIall SMyth)
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but i have an open tank
they are serious jumpers, right?
rgds
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- cardinal (Lar Savage)
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yep I think they look fantastic ...so much better then guppies which I think now look deformed with their tail sizes ect....Not sure about the jumping tho...
Lar
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- platty252 (Darren Dalton)
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- Andrew (Andrew Taaffe)
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i kept the females separate in the breeding tank and wont' cross contaminate them with the male guppys in my community tank, i'm only keeping male endlers in the commuity tank, sorry my earlier note wasn't crystal (little sleep last night makes me type poorly)
i don't want to hybridise them, i want to keep them endler pure

Daragh, yes it was a hectic night in the end but sure a great result
will try and get some video of courtship in the future
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- JohnH (John)
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You will, I'm sure, be aware of how prolific both are, especially the former - the 'manufactured' Guppies not being quite so in more recent years - but it shouldn't be very long before you're either looking for people to give the progeny to, or finding the fry to be a excellent form of protein for your larger fish...not something I especially like to do myself nowadays.
John
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We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.
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It's a long way to Tipperary.
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- Andrew (Andrew Taaffe)
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My intention is to solely breed the Endlers and put the males. As I have only got male guppys in a separate tank I'll not be putting anything of the fairer sex in with them - I don't want a populatione xplision on my hands !!!
Though I like the guppys and their style in the tank, I may create a specific tank for them in the future and let them get it on with any females I acquire at that time.
Of course when i have enough Endlers I'll need to be careful about the tank I put the females into after resting them for a month without male company to ensure no more fry appear.
Thanks again
Andrew
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- JohnH (John)
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Sorry to have to tell you this but female livebearers can have sometime three or even four broods of fry after only mating once!
Unless, of course, you mean you would keep them apart after no more broods appear?
It has been my experience though that most livebearer females go into terminal decline after stopping giving birth but this seems to 'hold off' if they mate again before this stage. I suspect it's a sort of a survival thing.
John
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We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl - year after year.
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- Andrew (Andrew Taaffe)
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thanks, yeah I'm hoping they do have more broods, though once they reach say 75% of my target for critical mass of fry in the breeding tank I'll keep them apart by removing the males and wait another month for any remaining broods to appear.
Am I right in my understadding of what you say below that if I remove the males eventually the females will start to die off and thus my breeding program stops?
If that's the case I'll move my male guppys into a different community tank and put the endlers (male and femlae) into a tank where their offspring need to work hard to survive, or maybe i'll do a great big endler tank instead !!
As I do not want to decrease the gene pool and keep a clean lineage I'll keep track of the current broods and only put in males from the original totally different source, can't remember if that's nepotism or soemthing else but you get my drift, either way i think i'll need to keep some really good notes of who is where and the family trees/genealogy, better get a bigger refill pad and plot out Plans A to Z !!
Andrew
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- JohnH (John)
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I'm not trying to tell you that as a hard and fast rule, it is merely my observation from experience.
As with everything in this hobby there are exceptions, perhaps others would care to comment?
And yes, your notes will have to be very studiously kept!
One other thing, if the females continue giving birth for even two more broods I think leaving them for a month would be insufficient - which is the other point I was trying to make. IMO you would need to wait, to be on the safe side, at least a month after the last fry were born - then you could be fairly safe to assume no further fry would be coming - but with a really good feeding regime you will find that your first fry would be well ready to breed by that time...but perhaps I'm missing the point?
John
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- Andrew (Andrew Taaffe)
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Andrew
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