What fish? **Water Readings Added**

Another question:

I like bright vivid colors(yellows, blue, red, whites - not a great fan of grey or silver), because of this I had kinda decided to go with (as you can tel from earlier posts) Labidochromis Caeruleus , Spotted Duboisi and a.nother or 2

but seems they might not be the easies to keep (together).

Could people give me some idea of what goes together? I was going to put only 3-4 differnet types of fish in the tank(eventually), not to keen on 10 pairs of totaly diff fish if you get my drift.

they dont have to be chilids either, so a selection of fish and the req for the water would be much appreiciated.

Thanks

Well everyone has their own opinions on what fish they prefer etc...The fish you mentioned are not beginner fish and being from different backgrounds they may not co-exist very easily,being a beginner you dont want to have to resolve terrortorial issues,Labidochromis Caeruleus is an african chilid.
I think when you are starting out then you should look towards fish that will take of themselves to an extend,more hardier fish you like.
There are alot of nice fish out there that have some great colours.
Guppy's are amongst some of the most colourful fish,they are community fish which means they are peaceful and also they are relatively easy to breed also,and also very easy to sex.
Similarly another livebearer fish is that of the molly. The sailfin molly is very impressive and also nice and colourful.
I have a ram chilid,bolivan rams are very colourful fish and you could keep them in a community tank also,particularly one of your size. Betta's can be another fish that has great colour and is impressive in appearance,however research them before you buy them as they are not compatitable with all other community fish,particulary fin nippers. Paradise fish are also nice (but Id avoid them with the general community tank however as they have been known to get aggressive during breeding,and again no fin nippers please!).
Killifish are stunning fish also but maybe not for the beginner.
There are alot of stunning tetras,with most people knowing the common neon or cardinal tetra as the bright blue & red fish!
Angel fish and discus are stunning too but discus perhaps is more advanced in terms of caring for it etc..

So there is lots of choice mentioned above there. I havent even mentioned pleco's or corys who despite there un-colourful like appearance have a very colourful personality.

You are at the best part of the fishkeeping stage,deciding what fish to get. Each fish you get should compliement the other,and ensure your water and the surroundings are ideal for the fish you purchase. Research loads of different fish and bare in mind the size the fish will grow to when they are at adult stage as alot of people will buy fish when they are small and suddenly realise they grow and quick too!

The key to it is,you have time on your side so research it loads,and please make sure you have the tank fully cycled before introducing fish. Also introduce small amounts at first or you will overload the filter when you introduce loads of fish.

Gavin

how longf does it take to cycle the tank? the dude I bought the tank of was gonna give me 2 or 3 fish next w/e if my ph was right?!

The PH isnt the thing you need to worry about at this point. Its the nitrates and nitrites.The nitrite should always read zero. Also the ammonia readings should also be non existant,it will kill the fish otherwise. Id be slow to add next weekend if the tank isnt cycled fully.Depends on what fish also,chilids as a first fish to a new tank isnt what I would suggest. You need hardy fish like mollys and platy.They are more tolerant to the nitrogen cycle but will not survive either if the tank isnt cycled enough. Fish tanks generally cannot be created overnight,however this new product called organic aqua is proving this theory otherwise,however that debate has been long played out here now.
If you are using the traditional method of letting the cycle occur naturally then you are looking at a period of 36 days at max. However most readings are far better before this stage.

you mention you used some sort of quick start biological product,Ive used similar products before and I admit they are good,however I still did testings every day or two. A week is abit too early Id suggest. If you'd like I have some mollies that you can use towards maturing your tank.They are hardy devils and will probably be able to deal with the tank in a week alright.

I think you should buy yourself a test kit,its the only way you are going to know if your tank is any closer to getting the fish you long to add.

Gavin

Great advice from Gavin.

You need a liquid test kit to test for Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate. Nitrate is not a problem in early cycle tanks but Ammonia & Nitrite certainly are and they are both killers.

Add only a couple of hardy fish in the first 3-4 weeks until you get the Ammonia & Nitrite under control and reading almost 0ppm.

I know it's very frustrating to wait so long to fully stock your tank but you WILL loose fish if you rush it. You need to read up & understand the Nitrogen cycle.

Partial weekly/bi-weekly water changes when your tank is cycled will keep the Nitrate level under control and, more than likely, your tank green algae free.

Good luck......

hey guys,

I'm getting a test kit in the next day or 2, so I'll be able to let you all know how my water is doing.
even though the shop told me they'd give me fish next weekend, I'm not even going looking for it.

I want to be sure that I'm good to go before I add fish. by the way, gavin, thanks for the offer, like I said on the other tread, I'd hate to send some-one elses fish to the aquarium of premanent retirement.

Thanks

No worries,I wouldnt introduce them to a tank unless I felt they would be alright,you can tell that pretty quickly anyhow with some test results. The offer is still there anyhow,I can assure you they wont die if the tank results are fine and constant so just let me know what if you'd like them next week sometime (I mean the week starting 10th Nov etc...).
They are a good fish to introduce to a tank,Ive used them on my last tank also and no problems at all with them. On the other side of the coin,if you do decide to get mollies,I have plenty I can give to you for free. Some ranging from 3 months to 6 months. Just let me know,I may also have some guppy in a few weeks but hopefully not!

Gavin

I'm off to bed, talk to you all later.

Dolf

P.S.: Gavin, hot wiskey and a good night sleep might sort your flu

Dolf as the guys suggested you need to have a test kit. This will tell you when the tank is cycled and is the first thing you reach for if you think something is wrong in the tank. The fish have no way of letting you know that their conditions arent right. The next thing you know is the fish are sick or dead.
I wouldn't rely on the person in the shop telling you when your tank is ready for fish. Especially if they are only concerned about the pH. Better to test yourself.

The Nitrogen cycle goes something like this.
From the day the tank is set up it will roughly take 8-10 days for the Ammonia to peak. When it peaks a bacteria (nitrosomonas)will form to feed of the Ammonia.
This level will drop in a couple of days, but while it is dropping the first bacteria is converting the Ammonia in to Nitrite.
From day 8 the Nitrite will rise and finally peak roughly around day 30. When this peaks a second bacteria (nitrobacter) will form feeding of the Nitrite converting it to Nitrate. The Nitrite quickly falls to 0 a coupe of days after it has peaked.

Ammonia and Nitrite are both toxic to fish and personally i wouldn't put any fish in untill the tank is fully cycled. No mater how hardy they are.
There are a couple of things you can do to speed up the process of cycling a tank. You mention you got a product to speed things up. What was it called?
One way of doing it is put some frozen shrimp,krill,fish in the tank. These will rot and feed the filter with Ammonia.
You could also get some media from an established aquarium. This will contain the necessary bacteria to seed your filter.

Before i make any suggestions of what fish to put in the tank it would be better to know what the pH is in your area. Maybe one of the members here are from the same area of Cork and could let us know.
It is always better to match the fish to your water rather than trying to alter the water to suit the fish.

thanks for the crash course on cycling the tank!

all going well, I'll be nipping out over luncg to get the test kit.

thanks

Just so you know re: the dubosi - they don't stay spotted!
They look cute when small but lose the spots as they get bigger & are black with a cream coloured band.

Best kept in colonies & in a bigger tank Im afraid.

Starting off with cichlids would be a little bit like jumping in at the deep end as they do have quite specific requirements.

There are lots of other colorful fish that would be more suitable as starter fish.

Im starting to realise that chiclids might not be they way to start off.

I'm hopefully heading to the lfs, 200m from where I work handy!!! to look at what they have on offer.

Thanks

your PH will be around the 7 mark.
Its a good PH to have as it amongst the medium range,so you have options of what to add to it.

I'm on a well tho ....

Get a test kit!

I will, I will, ....heading out overlunch hopefully

test kit purchased .....will don the white coat this evening and run some tests

Test your tank and then use another strip to test water directly from the tap. You will see the difference. What make is the test kit?

Hopefully you have gone with the liquid test kits Dolf. In my experience they are far superior and more accurate.

Post up your readings for Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate; it will be interesting to see what they are.

Also, as Fishowner already stated, test your tapwater for it's level of Nitrate. Hopefully it will be minimal so that when you do your water changes you are actually diluting the Nitrate level in the tank.

Good luck....

Nutrafin, same as the bottles of stuff I got when I set up the tank

Tested my water:

Tank:

Nitrite: 0.1
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 10
Ph : 7.5

Tap:
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 20
Ph : 6

How are these readings for a tank thats up since saturday evening?

oh, and its the liquid kinda kit, felt like a propper little chemist

The PH is low enough from your well. The tank of 7 is fine. Crushed coral would also increase the PH somewhat and make the water harder too. I think you mentioned you had coral sand and it appear it has hardened the water to an extend which is good.
pH – pH measures whether your water is basic, acidic, or neutral. A pH of zero is the most acidic, 14 is the most basic, and 7 is neutral. Most fish prefer a pH in the range of 6.4 - 7.8, but some fish prefer a pH outside this range (for example, African cichlids prefer a pH higher than this). Despite the fish having preferences for certain pH values, most are able to easily adapt to a wide range. They cannot, however, live through large pH fluctuations (large means fluctuations of greater than 0.3 over a 24 hour period). Therefore, instead of shooting for a specific value, it is much more important to maintain a constant pH.

Gavin

would people antisipate th ph to rise further?

does this mean that eventhough african chilids prefer higher ph, I could sucessfully keep them in this tank with this ph reading at some stage?

what can levels can I expect to rise in the near future

ph can rise or fall depending on what you put in the tank, eg coral sand, coral rock, limestone will all raise the ph, on the flip side bogwood,filtering through peat and the addition of co2 for plants will reduce the ph

if going african cichlid route i'd personally go with coral sand and rocks plus some limestone to raise hardness and ph, once its between 7.5 and 8ph and stable at that you should be ok with them, there is ways to get it harder and the ph higher but dont want to be too technical about it

as for future levels as i said depends on what you put in the tank, but i'd wait till you nitrites lower b4 adding fish
well thats my 2 cents
Seamus

Ph probably wont rise much more to be honest. But keep an eye on it over the coming days and see how it is. Do another test on Wednesday or Thursday. Also get a notebook and record the readings and the date etc...Basically keep a diary of what goes on in your tank.
You could potentially keep africian chilids,and you could also raise the PH further,there are ways of increasing the PH however alot of fish have adapted to a more neutral PH and may well be fine in it. Whether they breed or not is another question but Im sure people here will back me up and give examples of having chilids on a neutral PH of 7 and that they do fine.
Predicting what the levels will rise to is impossible to say in terms of the PH. I wouldnt get too focused in on the PH,the nitrate is important and vitally the nitrites and ammonia levels are the most important for your fish,they need to be zero.

Gavin

sorry to keep asking all the q's:


so a when the tank cycles amonia spikes, then nitrites spike and amonia drops, then nitrites drop and nitrates spike right?

this has to gone round once before adding fish and amonia and nitrite need to be 0? If nitrite rises => water change?

what reading of nitrate is acceptable?

PS: not even going to go look for fish for a while

If you are doing a fishless cycle I wouldn't worry about waterchanges till ammonia and nitrItes have both gone down to 0
and your nitrAtes are up.
Then do a large waterchange (50%) and when that is done you should be able to start adding fish (slowly)
This is my personal opinion and I am sure someone will be able to confrim/deny this.
HTH
Astrid

does having the light on in the tank speed up the bacteria build up?

Lights should make a difference,you can leave it off if you want, but I bet you like looking at the tank! I used to anyhow! Leave the lights on. The Nitrates shouldnt rise too much hopefully.Also a 50% water change when the cycle is over may be a tad too much, Id settle for 20 or 30% for your first water change and do 20% weekly water changes going forward.
If you want to increase the temperature this will speed the process up abit also, particularly when there are no fish in it at present.
One small tip now,remember that you should never wash your filter sponges in tap water,only in tank water. Tap water kills the beneficial bacteria.I wont confuse you with any more than you need to know at this point but I know when someone is new to the game its often tempting to go poking and sussing things out!!
Gavin