More problems...

Hi all,

It seems I'm destined to just not enjoy this hobby...

My Rio 180L currently has 8 Rummynose and 5 Sterbas Corys in it (after 3 Rummynose and 1 Cory died a month or so ago).

I got 10 Harlequin Rasboras last week and I put them in my little 24L Quarantine Tank. I checked the water in the QT each day, and the values were fine. After 3 days I found one of the Rasboras dead, no obvious signs or marks on its body. I took it out, noticed that Ammonia had risen to 0-0.25ppm, so I did a 50% water change. The next day everything was fine, but the following day I had another two dead Rasboras (again with no obvious signs), and the Nitrites were up to .25ppm. From what I could see, the small filter in the QT just couldn't handle the fish in the tank. All the remaining fish looked and behaved fine.

So I moved the remaining 7 into my main tank yesterday, and this morning I had two more dead Rasboras. This time I could see that both dead fish had their mouths wide open, which didn't strike me too much until I saw that 2 of the remaining 5 in the tank also had their mouths wide open. I was due to do a WC today anyhow, so I did a 33% change and then dosed the tank with eSHa 2000. Since then one of the two fish with their mouths open has died, and its gills were also very red. The other one is still ok, though its mouth is still open. The other 3 Rasboras (and the Rummynose and Corys) are fine.

So, basically, I've bought 10 fish and lost 6, with another one not looking good. This is after buying 11 Rummynose and losing 3, and buying 6 Corys and losing 1. All in all, nearly 40% of the fish I've bought have died. As most of you know, I've done my best to start this hobby properly, I did a fishless cycle, ended up stripping down the tank and effectively starting again, and I've tried my best to learn as much as I can before taking careful steps. The water in my tank has been stable for 6-7 weeks now, always 0ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitrites and I got the Nitrates down from 10ppm in the middle of November to 5ppm or less.

When I lost the Rummynoses, searches online seemed to suggest that what they died from (small cloudy growths on their body) is something that Rummynoses are susceptible to. Searching today has shown that Rasboras dying with their mouths wide open is something they're also susceptible to. Am I just really unlucky, or am I doing something that seems to cause my fish to die easily? When I get them I bring them straight home, leave them in the bag and add a bit of tank water every 15 mins or so for at least an hour before I add them to the tank.

At this stage, I'm very close to just selling the tank, I've spent far more time in the last 4 months trying to trouble shoot or watching animals die than actually enjoying this. Right now I'm going to dose the tank with eSHa for a few days and see what happens. I'm tempted to get more Rasboras and add them while the tank is being dosed, and least then they'll be added with some medicine! It's just very disheartening to have a plan (i.e. I'll get 6 of these, 10 of those etc.) and then whenever you try to get fish so many of them die...

Any thoughts or advice? Thanks...

J.

Jason it sounds a bit like a mixture of bad luck and reading to much into parameters
I've lost my fair share of fish to,
Its very easy for someone to say don't get disheartened but trust me
After your bad spell I think things can only get better,
I'm not trying to be smart here and I may get slated but you should try and not worry
To much on water parameters and the testing there of
Now I'm saying this from my own experience
The only thing I ever tested was ph a weekly test pre and after water change s
Also the occasional nitrite test,
And I have very few problems as far as deaths are concerned,
If anything you should keep your stock levels minimal from the start.
And cleaning regular and small.

I'm not sure where you read about the open mouths, but I suspect it is nonsense if referring to a specific problem specific fish are prone to.

It is true that much damage is done by water tests and interpreting water tests than is needed.
Worry where no worry is needed is a problem, and messing with water chemistry is also a problem.

You can buy an ECG from Argos for checking the waveform of your heart.....but it ain't much use unless you have the knowledge of a cardiologist.
The same thing is often true of water testing.

In a quarantine tank there is little reason nowadays to not add appropriate molecule sieve media. At one time only certain people had access to such materials, but they are now cheap and available in most decent aquatic shops.
An ammonia adsorbing zeolite and activated carbon are cheap and important componenets of a quarantine tank where no medication is being used.
Even if medication is planned, I would still use ammonia adsorbing zeolites on the first day at least. If delaying treatment of a disease by one day on newly acquired fish is going to compromise their health then that means the fish are duff anyway.

On this.....I would say get some ammonia adsorbing zeolites or polyfilter for the QT tank and put any past losses behind you.

ian

Also if I was you I would hold off on any more fish right now,
Concentrate on keeping what you have left alive,
If you have any live plants that are dyn off remove them,
These can cause problems,dead leaves decaying will give you trouble,
There's no such thing a disease free fish,they all carry pathogens and stress can cause outbreaks
Always go for healthy looking active fish,
Chances are these are the strongest and won't succumb to stress related illnesses

hi,
i started 2 months ago and have 5 tanks running. Lost 15-17 fish at the beginning as i wasn't prepared like you (I didn't even know about the nitrogen cycle..). Now when all seemed under control i bought 6 mollies 3 weeks ago. after 2 weeks time in my community tank they all died one after the other (while the rest of my fish stayed fine). I found a baby fish in my tank and he is surviving. So a fry is fine in my water but 6 bigger fish just can't handle it?
From the first batch of death in my first 2 weeks it is odd enough that all fish from one specific LFS died, while only very few others from other LFS died. And I am not saying that one LFS is better because the last 6 dead fish came from that second LFS.
These are not strong fish caught in the wild a day ago, full of vitality and with strong immune systems: they are supermegafarmed fish for generations, loaded with antibiotics and all types of stuff. in other words having an LFS is a good business because I am certain that 40-50% of the fish sold dies within 2 weeks, and customers go back to buy new fish lol.
The fish are often weak so don't lose too much sleep over this. And i agree with Anglecichlid better hold off on getting more fish. good luck.
is your water temp ok? the other day one of my tank heaters took a climb to 37 degrees and i almost had fish soup. is your water well oxygenated?

Agree with the others regarding params, we've all had small spikes like that at some stage and sometimes the worse thing you can do is a large w/c depending on fish, if the fish you get are healthy and the filter is sufficient then even a few feeds missed will sort the ammonia problem. As they say "there's more than 1way to skin a cat" which also works for fishkeeping but take what you read on the net with a pinch of salt becausethe cause of our eexperiences may not be the cause of yours.
I would start by maturing a bigger filter if you think yours is insufficient and if the community tank has a mature filter then use filter squeezings from It (also handy for ammonia spikes in quarantine) add an airstone or surface aggregation by the filter and keep an eye on your thermometer.

Ps. If you weren't getting the fish from a sponsor or even a knowledgeable store then that could also make the difference between buying strong or weak fish. Thats just my opinion anyways

Thanks for your replies. I decided to stay away from getting more fish until things have stabilised.

It looks like things 'stabilising' basically means all of the Rasboras dying, as the 8th one died earlier today. It looked fine last night, but today I noticed its mouth open, and by this evening it was dead. I managed to get some photos though, which show that its mouth isn't open as such, it's just rotting away:


















So, any ideas what's causing this? Whatever it is, it's quick, going from no external symptoms to death in less than 24 ours (though, of course, I can't tell what's happening internally). As you can see from the green tint to the water, I've treated the tank with eSHa 2000 (today was the third day), which means that it was three days into the treatment that the fish started showing symptoms. Currently the remaining two Rasboras look fine (if a little shy, especially the smaller of the two) but I expect them to die at some stage to be honest.

Thanks...

J.

I had some Dwarf cichlids do this, only in one tank. Parameters were all good . Never got to the bottom of it sorry I cannot help, I feel your pain

Hi Jason, it is really sad you're going through this, poor fishes.

I have search on internet and found more people with the same problem but the only solution I have found was for goldfishes and the problem was cause by a lack of oxygen.

I also found this page not sure if it will help you www.fishyportal.com/diag/

I'm sorry I can't help you more.

Aroshni has hit the nail On the head, my first thought on pics was the fish is suffocating (not enough oxygen in tank) and it's deffo riddled with worms

jeff wrote:

Aroshni has hit the nail On the head, my first thought on pics was the fish is suffocating (not enough oxygen in tank) and it's deffo riddled with worms

+1 for sure......

Thanks for your replies. Could you explain how it's deffo riddled with worms, what obvious signs am I missing? I can get an airstone and add it to the tank to help with Oxygen, but I've read that it's not a good idea to add airstones to a tank with live plants, as it removes the Carbon Doxide they need (or something like that). I've got the outlet pipe of my filter just at the water's surface, which I'd also read helps add Oxygen to the water by agitating the surface.

Does all that make sense? Thanks...

J.

I don't think that that looks like lack of oxygen that is causing the mouth to be locked open......if it is then that is symptomatic of an underlying problem within the fish whereby any lack of oxygen simply compounds a problems rather than causing it.

The jaw looks locked-open rather than just "open"......that is more of a symptom of a broken jaw due to multiple causes (including physical damage but unlikely in this case, worms, bacteria, malnutrition, sudden dramatic shock with a weak jaw.....and crap batch of fish)

One of the pics does seem to have what looks like a worm sticking out, but that is not shown in the other pics. Maybe that is what has been noted above.

To be sure if internal worms is easy....take a faecal swab and have it analysed by a LFS or do it yourself. (obviously, the LFS needs to be capable of analysing what is in the faeces).

You may need to have an autopsy on any dead fish to look for lesions within their mouth (= could be sign of bacterial problems).
If looking for toxicological problems.....forget it as that is not easy (and needs more than LFS)

Forget using eSHa 2000 on serious illnesses.....it just ain't powerful enough.
You may need to de-drug your water and then switch to something like Waterlife Octozin or Waterlife Paragon in future (but don't use the latter if keeping Discus).

ian

Thanks for your reply Ian. But as I noted in my post, to my eyes the fish's mouth wasn't locked open, it was basically half gone, so it looked like it was locked open. The last picture shows this most clearly, as not only is the top half of the mouth / nose missing, but so is the bottom half, and even the sections where the 'cheeks' would be (I know, I'm using human terms here) have disappeared and you can almost see sideways through the mouth.

So, something has eaten away at the mouth / head, it's not just that the mouth is open.

Thanks...

J.

Take it from me......that looks liked a locked jaw (which doesn't mean locked-open 247).
Locked jaws can come erosion directly by bacteria or from erosion due to malnutrition (where that malnutrition may be due to food or due to parasites limiting the nutrient intake, eg worms).

Gasping for oxygen is not likely to look like that.

You do need to check for worms.....it is easy enough done by a LFS (or yourself if you have a microscope). That would give a quick answer to one question.
Testing for bacteria is a totally different thing and cannot be simply checked quickly under a microscope.

If you have worms or other internal parasite then treat for that.

If you see no worms then treat for bacteria.

ian

Thanks for your advice Ian, I'll look into it...

J.