Setting up my tank??

hi there

im beginning to set up my tank and i wanted to know if there is a book i can get my hands on fairly handy to bring me along step by step on what to do and what my water ph etc should be?? any help would be appreciated

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

There's really no need to buy a book as there are plenty of resources on the internet. With regard to your pH, it's easier to buy fish that suit your pH rather than modify your pH to suit certain fish. Do you know what your pH is?

One of the sites that I used when starting off was The Tropical Tank. It's a UK based site and has a lot of articles on water chemistry and tank set up. There is also a section on fishless cycling that's worth a read. The link is:

www.thetropicaltank.co.uk

Just go to the library section and you'll find all you need.

The Practical Fishkeeping website also has good information for beginners:

www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk

Don't be afraid to come to this forum and ask any questions no matter how basic you feel they are. We're here to help.

Hi - I came across this page on cycling and water testing and found it quite clear : faq.thekrib.com/begin-tests.html .
Good luck with your new venture

fishlover,

Edit your profile and put in your location.This will give you the oppertunity of meeting up with keepers who may live close to you.I recently found out 5 members on this forum live within 10 minutes of my house.

Hi Mark

I set my tank up about 2 weeks ago and i am still living with cloudy water it is getting cleared and all fish happy and eating well IME the best thing is time dont rush anything and take small steps ie put in gravel rocks wood etc fill with water then wait a week add a few fish (3 or 4) then wait a week add another few fish wait a week then add plants etc. etc .
I know that the more experienced lads might tell you quicker ways but whats the hurry , IMO fish keeping is ment to be relaxing, anyway if you rush and do manage to get your tank filled with all the lovley fish you like you will miss the joy of going and buying fish looking around the fish shops is half the fun for me.
Any way i Live in north wicklow and if i can help give me a shout

Regards
Gary

There really isn't any sense in waiting a week before adding fish, however, Gary is right when it comes to slowly adding fish. Once your tank is set up, all you want to check is that everything works as it should. This takes a couple of days at most. Leaving it sitting for a week doesn't really achieve anything.

The next step is to build up the necessary bacteria for the nitrifying cycle. You can do this by slowly adding hardy fish or by doing a fishless cycle (which is becomming more common and avoids stressing fish). See the link below for details on a fishless cycle:

www.tropicaltankforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8326

Or you can just buy nitrifying bacteria. Most manufacturers do them. They come either in liquid form or pills (TETRA). This will cycle your tank faster and safer.

Or you can just buy nitrifying bacteria. Most manufacturers do them. They come either in liquid form or pills (TETRA). This will cycle your tank faster and safer.

There's a lot of debate as to whether this stuff actually works. We know that nitrifying bacteria needs oxygen to survive so how does it survive in a bottle for several months?

hi folks
tetra have a new product called safestart it is amazing! we have set up lots of small complete set ups 60 litres with 30 or so fish in them with no probs!!!
i would still test water daily, but parameters hardly moved!

Or you can just buy nitrifying bacteria. Most manufacturers do them. They come either in liquid form or pills (TETRA). This will cycle your tank faster and safer.

There's a lot of debate as to whether this stuff actually works. We know that nitrifying bacteria needs oxygen to survive so how does it survive in a bottle for several months?

The bottle contains no Amonnia/nitrate or nitrate. The bacteria lies in a dormant start.
Oxygen plays a vital part in the Nitrogen cycle.
Too much Ammonia in a tank can kill bacteria too. I use these products and they are super. Safe water IME is about the best.

Bacteria can lay dormant for millions of years under certain conditions.They are the most advanced lifeform (in relation to their environment) on earth so living in a bottle without oxygen isnt really a big thing.Bacteria exist in much more diverse and extreme conditions.

I don't buy this argument. Whatever about these prodcuts creating a suitable environment for the bacteria to grow, I don't accept that they containt the necessary bacteria. If nitrifying bacteria has the ability to go dormant and survive without oxygen, then why doesn't this happen when your filter stops instead of them dying off.

There are two types of bacteria - aerobic (that require oxygen) and anerobic (that don't require oxygen). Aerobic bacteria (which nitrifying bacteria fall under) would not survive in a bottle for too long.

Maybe the bacteria are OTU or one time usable.In lab conditions bacteria can be developed up to a certain maturity, such as before they require oxygen.Once introduced into an aquarium the frozen state is unlocked and the bacteria fully develop.At this point lack of oxygen will kill them.

Dont quote me on this,I am just guessing.I could be wrong,all I know is the capabilites of some bacteria are well within this range.Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter def could not survive in an oxygenless bottle,but in a frozen stage of early development before they require oxygen they might.

I don't buy this argument. Whatever about these prodcuts creating a suitable environment for the bacteria to grow, I don't accept that they containt the necessary bacteria. If nitrifying bacteria has the ability to go dormant and survive without oxygen, then why doesn't this happen when your filter stops instead of them dying off.

There are two types of bacteria - aerobic (that require oxygen) and anerobic (that don't require oxygen). Aerobic bacteria (which nitrifying bacteria fall under) would not survive in a bottle for too long.

They die in a tank inviroment because of ammonia. The will continue to cycles ammonia until oxygen runs out in their area and then will start to die off. Ammonia kills bacteria it uses oxygen during the nutrifing bacteria..
Hope this is simple enough to understand.

Here is another thing.
I am in the process of importing Siporax for fithers. Using Anerobic bacteria it nutrifies nitrate.(turns it in to harmless a gas).
All those pillows are shit.

Hope this is simple enough to understand.

No, I don't buy that either.

Hope this is simple enough to understand.

No, I don't buy that either.

Well don`t buy it .
I use these products and I find them excellent. I had problems in a Discus tank with nitrite once. I added some Safewater and the nitrite was gone the next day.

Bacteria are able to go dormant for a long time once their environment doesn't suit them anymore. That's why scientist can tell if a person from the middle ages has died of a bacterial infection. Some of the bacteria can still be viable.
The way to keep nitrobacters viable is to supply them with oxygen but starve them of nitrogen compounds.

Ken, if you don't buy this, get yourself a first year college microbiology textbook.

Holger,
microbiology is not my forte, I know its more your area, but let me ask you this, if you take a very very small amount of filter wool full of crap and bacteria from an old tank, and keep it moist during transit and introduce it into a brand new tank, it by passes the new tank syndrome, if on the other hand you buy a bottle of so called live bacteria, it almost takes as long to get rid of the nitrite as not introducing nothing a apart from the live stock, in other words the bacteria in the bottle in comparison to the real my coy is no comparison.

Thanks Sean. That's exactly my argument. The chemistry behind this stuff doesn't add up. If you do a searh on many of the reputable forums (such as the Cichlid form), many will be of a similar opinion to me.

There is one product in the US that does appear to work. It's called Bio Spira. However, it's chilled and only has a short shelf life. It also only lasts about an hour once it's removed from the fridge. Because of the requirement to chill it and transport in refriderated containers, it's also very expensive.

Sean,
to get back to your question. A small bit of well used filter wool will by-pass the new tank syndrom. It's only a question of oxygen supply in transit. No argument there. However, sometimes this isn't practical, for example you are just starting off and know nobody who could give you some crapped in filter wool or you do not want to risk introducing ant pathogens with it. And, no , Sean I don't wnat to be throwing formalin at my fish.

I cannot comment on the effectiveness of any particular brand of live bacteria. If interpet do it, it's probably useless.
The only brand I have used (got it free as a sample) where those pills produced by tetra. Used it on an 180l tank I was setting up for a friend of mine in West Cork. Brought fish and all down put in the same day and it worked like a treat. Not one fish lost. So I take it works.

Anybody interested in how bacteria go dormant? I can post the whole science behind it but it will take a couple of pages and you will need some background in biology and biochemistry.

Holger

well im more confused now than i was before......

"apistodiscus" wrote:

Sean,
to get back to your question. A small bit of well used filter wool will by-pass the new tank syndrom. It's only a question of oxygen supply in transit. No argument there. However, sometimes this isn't practical, for example you are just starting off and know nobody who could give you some crapped in filter wool

Holger,
its true a beginner will not know other fish keepers well enough to ask for some of the crap (non human kind!!!), however on a serious note if the are going to be spending euros in their LFS, they have every right to say "look I an going to be buying my fish from you and today, I buying, and danio, or platy to test for toxins before I but the main bulk of my fish, do you mine if I have some of your filter wool, and can you put it in a fish bag damp, I dont mind paying for it?" If your LFS says no or wants to sell you dead bacteria in a bottle, you should vote with your feet.
This as just inspired me, with an idea for an young fish keeper to make a few bucks, when I was a teenager I use to advertise in PFK "live calapura" (marine plant), despite all the orders coming from the U.K there was quite a lot of gullible aquarist bought from me. Whats stopping a young richard bran son fishkeeper with a website selling mature filter wool, delivered in a seal bag moist with 40% oxygen.

I wouldn't want to use filter wool coming out of the central filter system of a fishshop. Too much risk of introducing pathogens.

If anybody wants some crapped in filter wool, let me know

If you do a searh on many of the reputable forums (such as the Cichlid form), many will be of a similar opinion to me.

KSimpson, That's the problem with the internet, if enough people say something it is taken as gospel.

I'm enjoying this thread. IMO there is no substitute for some sponge from a mature tank.

Just to clarify

NEW TANK/BACTERIA
-no waste present
-therefore no bacteria

-introducing established bacteria means bypassing cycling (as long as bioload is kept within range)
-if instead bottled bacteria is used and no established bacteria is introduced bacteria has to mature meaning ammonia,nitrite and finally nitrate a few weeks later
-if bottled bacteria and established bacteria are introduced together the tank is cycled and bioload potential will increase faster

Heterotrophic bacteria must first exist to turn ammonia into nitric waste.It is then that nitrifying bacteria convert nitrIte to nitrAte.The heterotrophic bacteria take around a week to form if using bottled bacteria.However if it is introduced in high enough amounts with nitrosomonas and nitrobacter the tank is cycled.A steady amount of waste needs to exist at all times to maintain this bacteria.

When I want to kick start a tank I just squeeze bio-med from an established tank into some tank water and pour it straight into the filther in the new tank. This is by far the best way IMO to kick start a tank.

I always use this system. If I had no excess to this I would buy Safe water by King british, and excellent product if you ask me.

I never cycled my 775 litre.Fish were added in 10 per week from day 2 of having it,just to give the bacteria a chance to deal with the extra amount of waste.I didnt have one fatality or washed out looking fish during the phase.

EDIT:

Initial amount of fish was 38,from day 1.

Chris,
we all used to do it like this. It's about the same as starting off with a couple of danios in a smaller tank. 10 fish crapping into a 775l tank is pretty insignificant in terms of bioload unless you are talking adult Oscars and the like. And since you slowly increased the number of fish your bacteria had no problem adjusting to the increased bioload.
The tree hugger brigade has an issue with this kind of cycling since they assume that the first fish introduced are suffering.

Holger

Chris,
we all used to do it like this. It's about the same as starting off with a couple of danios in a smaller tank. 10 fish crapping into a 775l tank is pretty insignificant in terms of bioload unless you are talking adult Oscars and the like. And since you slowly increased the number of fish your bacteria had no problem adjusting to the increased bioload.
The tree hugger brigade has an issue with this kind of cycling since they assume that the first fish introduced are suffering.

Holger

I did the same with 6 Juvinile Discus in a 400l tank but I kicked started it too. Never had an ammomia problem.

in my mind most problems with nitrogenous compounds result from overfeeding and overstocking a tank.
I am not suggesting to cram fish into a tank and let them starve for a bit but a gradual stocking with a lean feeding regime. Sometimes this is not possible since young fish require several feeds a day and some food will always be left over.